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Interrupted Journey is the account of Betty and Barney Hill, most of it as related under

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hypnosis.

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Much of the book is in effect a transcript of the tape recording made by their psychiatrist,

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Dr. Benjamin Simon of Boston, during their treatment.

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Now, I don't want to go too far into this story because the story is far more fascinatingly

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told first hand by our guests, who tonight are Betty and Barney Hill, who will be speaking

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to us long distance from Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

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But before we introduce Betty and Barney on the telephone, I would like you to meet our

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friend and your friend, the noted Cleveland ufologist and a member of NYCAP and also APRO

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and several other organizations, I'm sure, and himself an author and a distinguished lecturer,

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Mr. Earl Ness.

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He is an experienced investigator and also he's a fascinating guy to have on as a guest

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and I never feel right doing any kind of a program about unidentified flying objects

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unless Earl is with me.

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Tonight, I'm particularly anxious to talk to Betty and Barney Hill, but before we do,

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I just wanted to tell you that the introduction to the book, The Interrupted Journey, is written,

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as I think I mentioned, by Benjamin Simon.

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The reason for writing the introduction was to give the reader the documentation and the

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authority from the psychiatrist to reprint in certain sections of the book the transcript

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of his treatment of both Mr. and Mrs. Hill.

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I think it's very important to realize that this is not a story that has come from a person

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who feels they've had this experience alone.

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It rather comes not only from them, but it is documented as told to their psychiatrist

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under the influence of hypnosis.

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Hypnosis was the method of treatment, a time being of the essence that Dr. Simon chose to

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use.

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So, the story has been reconstructed in a factor parts of it have through bonnivide, if not

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a treatment by, a distinguished Boston psychiatrist.

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I could read to you the entire excerpt from the 1966-67, Who's Who in the East, 10th edition.

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There's about 42 inches worth of material in the columns on Dr. Benjamin Simon.

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Suffice to say that he is a distinguished, respected psychiatrist.

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All right, now let's talk to Betty and Barney Hill, who are now on the telephone in Portmouth,

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New Hampshire.

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Hello, which one have I got on the line or have I got your phone?

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Oh, how wonderful.

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Hello, that's you Barney?

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Yes, that's correct.

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And Betty, are you there?

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Yes, Barney.

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How are you?

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Fine, thank you.

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You both met by means of telephone at least, Mr. Earl Netties with us tonight too.

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Hello, Barney and Betty.

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Hi, Earl.

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Good to hear your voice again.

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Yes, it is a pleasure.

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Thank you.

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Now, before we get started, and I know you've told this story time and time again and told

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it fascinatingly, I'm going to express my gratitude to you in advance.

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Both of you, Betty and Barney, for consenting to be on with us tonight.

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Thank you.

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Now, as I understand it, we have to go back to 1961 to start this whole incident, don't

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we?

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Yes, that's right.

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September 19, 1961.

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That's when whatever happened happened.

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Yes.

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Where were you then, Barney?

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Well, Betty and I were returning from a vacation trip in Canada, and we had left Montreal,

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Canada, arrived in New Hampshire across the Canadian, American Canadian border about 9.30,

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close to 9.30 o'clock p.m. and we stopped in a small town, border town called Coldbroke,

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New Hampshire, and we had a refreshment with coffee and hamburgers, and we left approximately

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10 o'clock shortly after 10.

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When we were traveling south on Route 3, arrived in an area called Lancaster, New Hampshire,

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Betty called my attention to an object or a star that she had been watching because

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she had noticed it, and she called my attention to it, but she could better tell what she had

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seen because this would have been a micro-interaction to this star at all.

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Betty, what was it you saw?

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Well, I saw the writing of one in the Lancaster area.

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First of all, it was a beautiful night.

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It was a harvest moon, and it was quite bright.

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And right out in the lower, black-and-corner of the moon was a large star which I learned

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later was the planet Cupidus, and suddenly there appeared above this star a much larger

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star, which I said not then later, and then suddenly I saw it.

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And as I was watching, this star seemed to be getting larger and brighter, and as we

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wrote along, I kept watching it, and then all of a sudden I noticed that it had started

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to move, and it was at this time that I got really caught by an attention to it, and we

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decided to stop, get out of the car with the binoculars, and take a look at it.

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At this time, we thought it was a satellite, so we did get out of the car, and we had

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seven, five, or five, I forgot now, the size of the binoculars.

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Seven by fifty power.

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And so we took turns watching this object, and it went across the face of the moon, and

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made a half turn, and started to come in towards our car.

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And when it started coming towards us, this was when we returned to the car, and Barney

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made the comment that he had seen us, and was coming towards us.

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We got in the car, and we started driving.

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How did you feel then, Barney, if you had seen you, and was coming toward you?

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Well, Alan, I think that remark would have been made, because after Betty had called my

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attention to this, and the star that was in the sky moving, my remark to her was that it

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was obviously a satellite.

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Prior to 1961, I was totally closed-minded about flying saucers or UFOs, so that this

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would have been a natural explanation for something distant, quite a distant out-moving.

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The reason I said that it had now seen us, and was coming towards us, is because as rapidly

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from a star-like position, which means it was quite a distance away, it now had come in rapidly

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to where it would have been close to, what I mean by close is that now it is something

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that you can see in the sky, like a light, with the sky in the background, you might say.

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Would you say that it was just an off-and-rear-move you were fighting at that moment?

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Well, I became frightened, only because I then said, well, Betty, it is a probability,

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it is a commercial airline, or going to Canada, because it was traveling north when we initially

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saw it, and I said, well, it's probably a commercial plane on its way north somewhere.

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And it made this peculiar turn that Betty described, where it turned toward Vermont, which is west

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of New Hampshire, and completing the turn started coming in toward where we were parked

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on the highway, coming in towards us. Now we are in the mountainous areas, you have to understand that too.

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So I became quite alarmed, and this was dark at night, I thought of bears, unformally from a city,

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and I kept thinking, well, what if bears came out of the woods there?

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This has been quite the frightening to me as well, so that I said, Betty, it has seen us,

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and we returned to the car and began traveling on route 3, traveling south.

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Now, Betty would occasionally call my attention to the object, I would slow down, and sometimes I would make a complete stop,

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because the object was now following, going along in the same direction we were going.

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That is, the way it had been traveling north, it had now began traveling south, the direction we are traveling.

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So that it was off on the passenger side of the car, and we would occasionally stop,

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and I kept thinking, if one has ever been in open areas at night, you can see millions of stars,

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much more prominent in the sky than you can in the city, so that on occasion when you are driving along at night,

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you can notice that a star seems to be moving along with the car motion,

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and I kept thinking, well, maybe this is what is happening, so I would stop the car and the object was still moving,

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and this was peculiar too, because it was still moving, so I obviously had to rule out that it was a star,

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and it is following us to the south.

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Well, we arrived at an area called Franconian Notch, and there is Cannon Mountain there,

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there is a tramway that goes up to the mountain that one can ride,

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going to some of the mountains top, and the object went around the west side of the mountain,

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which would have been the Burmock, while we were in New Hampshire, but it would have been on that side,

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while the road itself at the base of the mountain travels around on the left side,

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and then traveling around on the left side at the base of this mountain, Cannon Mountain,

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the object when we came out south of Cannon Mountain, there is a natural rock formation called Oman of the Mountain.

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It is actually a landmark marking New Hampshire,

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but we use it in many of the government broachers that is telling of sites and things to see, one-one visiting New Hampshire.

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So this is something that everyone is quite proud about, is this natural rock formation that looks like the face of a person, a profile.

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So the object was now front, it might be, in the front of us, and I came to another stop, and I looked, and I could see it,

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it was still off at a distance.

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What did it look like to you now?

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Well, from this point, it looked like, in all respects, a probability, it looked like,

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and then I thought it was a piper club, because I thought that a fast-moving commercial plane couldn't travel that slow,

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so it must have been a piper cub, and this is what I told Betty, there is nothing to get a lot about, it's a piper cub.

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But I was getting quite frightened because of this, and I thought it must have been a military pilot,

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and they could obviously see us on the ground with the lights of the car on, and I thought they were playing a game which was out there.

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And when we arrived south of Indian Head, I used Indian Head as a landmark, but it's just a little south of Indian Head,

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Betty again called my attention to this, and she was very excited, she said, I stopped the game, because I was telling Betty that,

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well now we have to get on to a part of this, if we can't bother ourselves with this, whatever it is out there,

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and as I'd said previously, military pilots, piper, car, commercial airline, I kept putting it all in this kind of natural explanation.

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So she called my attention again, and I stopped the car, and now the object has descended to about 250 feet.

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It was on the passenger side of the car, not directly to the right, but in an oblique, more to the right headlight on that kind of an angle.

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I looked through the windshield, and I could see that, as I said, that it has descended to about 200 feet, I estimate this,

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and I am not good at that, I am not good at estimating distance, but it was much closer.

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I became determined then that I was going to find out what this is, it had to have some natural explanation, and this is as simple as that.

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I got out of the car, took the binoculars from where they were sitting, on the seat between Betty and I,

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I stepped away from the car, and along the whole the object then shifted across from the passenger side, over the highway,

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over the field, which brought it over on the driver's side of the car now, also in, you might say, an oblique position from the car position,

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that way, not exactly to the passenger side of the car, but more front at an angle.

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And I began walking away, I began walking away from the car, across the highway, walked into the field, and I walked quite a distance,

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and I then, I mean, looking at it with the binoculars, and I can't believe what I am seeing, because now we have to understand that this is all,

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and have always been in the conscious memory. I can't believe what I am seeing, because with the binoculars I can discern what I call a figure's moving about,

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at a huge plate glass that seems to curve around, and this was so baffling because I kept thinking, there's nothing, I can't believe it's flying off as UFOs,

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and this is just incredible, and I wanted to hear a sound, a noise of some kind of motor that would cause this thing to be able to be hovering there in a stationary position.

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I failed to mention that when I made this stop, this particular stop, Betty also had seen two red lights on the side of the craft,

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and I, when I stepped from the car, could see the same two red lights.

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Now, after it had shifted across the highway, these figures that were looking seemingly down toward me, because the object was tilted at a downward motion,

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plate glass, this huge glass was tilted toward the ground, you might say, at a slight angle.

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At an angle that would have enabled the occupants to look down.

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Yes, that's correct. I could see, well, I said that all the figures then, it would seem with the exception of one,

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moved away as if to take just one, no more than two steps from the plate glass,

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and I could see with the binoculars what I thought were going out, touching or pulling on the papers.

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The lack of a better thing to say, I called them levers.

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Yes.

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The two red lights that were now part of the craft began to move out and away,

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becoming the extension of a fan or fan-like type wing.

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Yes.

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The long wings that you find on planes thought more of a thin-like kind of wing,

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and the two red lights would have been the attitude of this, that became the extension of these wings.

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And I was just completely baffled by the entire experience Danny has seen this incredible thing.

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And I pulled the binoculars away from my eyes, dashing back to the car, screaming to Betty,

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oh my God, I said, Betty, there is going to capture it.

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I entered the car, put it into gear, and I thought I could see as I passed,

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as I mentioned it was in an oblique position towards the front, left front of the car,

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you follow my question?

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Yes.

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So that when I began driving down the highway, the object I thought shifted overhead,

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and there was a series of beeps, and Betty was saying, I don't see it, I don't say it.

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There was a series of beeps, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, and the car vibrated very subtly.

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Yes.

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And could you sense where those beeps, if there was a vibration, where the vibration was coming from?

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I felt it with my hands on the steering wheel, I felt it tingling on the steering column.

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Betty has mentioned that, but she hasn't mentioned it yet, but she has told me that she reached itself to dash panel,

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and we all wondered, where is this subtle vibration coming from?

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It was not a violent vibration.

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Yes.

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The vibration was much, the description I have given is like a tuning fork being struck in place against one's arm.

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Yes.

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And that's just a subtle vibration, just the way the car vibrated from the beeping sound that we heard.

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And the vibration seemed to coordinate with the beeping sound.

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Yes, it beeps, yes.

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All right, now I would stop you with this point in your story, Barney, and Barney Hill is recounting, ladies and gentlemen, this story from his conscious memory.

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It is most important to realize that there was a lapse.

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What you're going to hear next in the story is a reconstructed version.

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It took some years for Barney and for Betty Hill to find out what happened after they first heard the beeping sound

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and felt the vibrations inside the car.

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But I would like to pause for just a moment, if I may, and render a commercial.

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And then we'll get back to the story that we're listening to from Betty and Barney Hill speaking to us from Portsmouth, New Hampshire tonight.

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And we will go aboard that unidentified flying object with Mr. and Mrs. Hill in a moment.

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And so will Earl Neff, our guest here in the studio tonight.

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We're talking Earl Neff of Cleveland and I with Betty and Barney Hill.

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And Betty and Barney live and are speaking to us tonight from their residence in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

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And we left them on Route 3 heading south and feeling a strange vibration in the car coordinated with beeps.

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And now let's get back to Barney and Betty.

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Before we go on with the story, Betty, you were alone in the car with the dog while Barney ran out in the field with the binoculars.

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Now what did you see from the car and how did you feel then while Barney was off in the field?

206
00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:04,440
Well, my first thought was, well, let me say, principal, I had had no fear whatsoever at this point.

207
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:10,440
I was fascinated by this and I had a great deal of curiosity.

208
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:17,440
When Barney stopped the car, he stopped at right directly in the middle of the highway.

209
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:27,440
And so when he went out into the field, I was being in the car and I was watching in case of traffic any car coming along.

210
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:33,440
Then I would drive the car over to the side of the highway.

211
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:40,440
So I was sitting there waiting for him and I kept waiting and waiting and waiting.

212
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:47,440
And he didn't come back. And at this point, I began to get quite upset.

213
00:19:47,440 --> 00:20:00,440
And I found out later under the hypnosis that I became so upset I was almost speaking for him to come back to the car.

214
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:06,440
And if he did not hurry up and come back, I was going to go out and get him myself.

215
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:12,440
And I then opened the door open on the side.

216
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:18,440
And I started to open it more and I was going to slide out and go out into the field after Barney.

217
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,440
When I heard him running back to the car.

218
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:30,440
And then this is when he got into the car and said that they were going to capture us.

219
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:37,440
And he would start up a tent. He was not hysterical. He was very upset.

220
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,440
And he immediately started driving the car.

221
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,440
You know, those were trying to escape.

222
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:49,440
And he was also telling me to look out and see if I could see them.

223
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,440
He was saying that they were directly over the head.

224
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:57,440
And I threw the car window down and I stuck my head out the window and looked down.

225
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,440
And I couldn't see any sign.

226
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:05,440
And so then I put the window back up and it just turned out completely during this.

227
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:10,440
That we heard the beeping on the trunk of the car and the car vibrated.

228
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:17,440
And I was touching the metal because I kept seeing a little bit of some kind of some kind of electrical.

229
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,440
And possibly there would be electricity. Maybe a sight to feel is shocked.

230
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,440
From the metal of the car.

231
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:30,440
Now at this point, this is a critical point in the story.

232
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,440
It is typical to know quite where to go from here.

233
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:41,440
Because this is the point of the story at which you later realized that there were two hours missing in time.

234
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:49,440
And I think perhaps what we best do is follow you along home in your conscious memory to the point where you got home.

235
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,440
And then reconstruct the story as it actually happened to you.

236
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:54,440
And we'll do that in a moment.

237
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:59,440
After I pause to remind our audience that we're talking with Barney and Betty Hill tonight.

238
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,440
They are the subjects of the book The Interrupted Journey.

239
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:08,440
Two hours, two lost hours aboard a flying saucer by John G. Fuller.

240
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,440
It is now available. It's published by Dyle.

241
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:15,440
And if you are a ufologist, I strongly urge that you get this book.

242
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:25,440
I think that this incident goes down as probably the best documented sighting of an unedited by flying object.

243
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:32,440
And confrontation with creatures in an object in the history of UFOs.

244
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,440
Now Betty and Barney will be with us.

245
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,440
And so will Earl Ness.

246
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:43,440
I feel impelled only through earthbound egoistic urges to remind you that my name is Alan Butters.

247
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:48,440
Now let's get back to the story that Betty and Barney are telling us.

248
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,440
You proceeded onward then toward Portsmouth.

249
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:57,440
From the time you first heard those beats and felt the vibrations,

250
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:04,440
was there any leg in time, in your conscious memory, to the second time you heard them?

251
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:13,440
No, I would say that it was only later that we realized that this pot was sort of missing.

252
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,440
May I say this?

253
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:16,440
Yes, please.

254
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:25,440
And Betty, that later we also described another time when we heard these series of beat.

255
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:32,440
And Betty, as remarked to me, was, well now Barney, do you believe in flying saucers?

256
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,440
And I said, of course not. Betty, don't be ridiculous.

257
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:41,440
This would have been in the primate actual infection of New Hampshire on Route 3.

258
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,440
This incidentally has always been the position that you had taken.

259
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,440
Yes. And we then proceeded on to Portsmouth.

260
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:54,440
We occasionally, we didn't stop after this, but we would occasionally look at the guy with,

261
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,440
we would slow down very, to a slow pace occasionally.

262
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,440
And we drove to Portsmouth.

263
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:08,440
There wasn't much conversation between us from that point after the second beat to Portsmouth,

264
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:14,440
except that when we arrived in the city of Portsmouth, it was dawn,

265
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:23,440
well it was daybreak and the sun was coming up, it was not night any longer.

266
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:30,440
Now this is the trip, it's approximately 170 miles from Colbrook and Hampshire to Portsmouth.

267
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,440
And the speed of the highway is 50 miles an hour.

268
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:40,440
We don't know that it should have taken us, oh I should say, at least 3 to 4 hours to get home.

269
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,440
It would have led you home about midnight.

270
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,440
Yes, well no, we left Colbrook at 10 o'clock.

271
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,440
We should have arrived, I would say around 2 o'clock in the morning.

272
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:50,440
2 a.m.

273
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:56,440
Yes, but when we arrived it was after 4, closer to 5, when we arrived in Portsmouth.

274
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:03,440
But it was very determined that I would not bring the car refrigerator we had with food in it,

275
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:09,440
fresh food that is, that I would not bring it into the house, that I would carry it around to the back soup

276
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,440
and place it there because she wanted to discard all this food and I wondered why

277
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,440
and she just thought that she didn't want it in the house and we shouldn't eat it.

278
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:25,440
We entered the home and we felt unclean, more than just the accumulation of dirt and grime,

279
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:32,440
one would get from a trip, but we felt foiled, and there was foiled a kind of uncleanliness.

280
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:38,440
And I went into the bathroom, took a mirror and examined my body for no reason.

281
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:44,440
I wasn't looking for anything, but I just felt as if something had touched me and I wasn't sure what it was

282
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:49,440
and I wanted to look around and see and I didn't see or find anything.

283
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:59,440
Well, this is basically what would have happened. Betty and I retired then and we awakened several hours later in the late afternoon.

284
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:08,440
We vowed we would never tell anyone about this and we decided that we would draw a picture of what we thought this thing looked like

285
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:15,440
and compare our drawings. So Betty went into one room and I, the other, we drew our pictures, we brought them together

286
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:23,440
and we looked at them and there was the similarity of the structure of what we were trying to draw.

287
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:30,440
So our drawing techniques were basically, oh, we're not odors by the stretch of the imagination, but there was the similarity.

288
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:36,440
Well, Betty then called her sister. We weren't going to tell anyone, you know.

289
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:45,440
She called her sister and told her sister about it and also remarked about the beep because she was very upset about this

290
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:52,440
and her sister called back a few minutes later telling us that she had talked with her sister's friend of hers

291
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:58,440
and he had suggested that if there was beeping and the tingling sensation that Betty had described

292
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,440
to go out and take a look at her car, if she had anything she could use to take it with her

293
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:10,440
and one suggestion was a compass. So we found a compass and this is interesting. Many people have a question.

294
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:16,440
Why did we have a compass? Why did we have a binoculars? The only answer is...

295
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:17,440
Your campers, actually.

296
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,440
Pardon me?

297
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:19,440
Your campers, actually.

298
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:28,440
We're campers. We love it. And the interesting thing, we live on the coast and we're only about three miles from the ocean

299
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:34,440
so that anyone living by the sea, we enjoy sitting on the beach looking out at ocean line

300
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:39,440
and going up the coast occasionally while coming into portmouth as well as going into the mountain areas

301
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:44,440
and going up on the summit of some mountain and then looking off at the vast distances

302
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:49,440
and trying to pick out objects with the binoculars. So this was just standard equipment.

303
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:54,440
I would say that any rational mind will grant you a pair of binoculars and a compass.

304
00:27:55,440 --> 00:28:00,440
Yes. So that...Betting went out and we came into the house very, very upset.

305
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:06,440
Now, I had told her to keep me out of this and not to involve me with the conversation with the sister or any of this.

306
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,440
Well, we have tenants living in our apartment at that time.

307
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:16,440
This young man in his life that we're living in our apartment, that is the building we have on the building itself.

308
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,440
They knew we had been on vacation and they could hear us talking.

309
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:25,440
So they came down to ask about our trip and Betty, they know this is very excited

310
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:31,440
and was trying to get me to go look at her car and they went off, took a look and they came in.

311
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:36,440
They just wanted you to go out and take a look at the car and see what their large spots on it.

312
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:41,440
So I went out reluctantly and took a look at zero in the front of the car.

313
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,440
There were very large shiny spots about the size of silver dollars.

314
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:50,440
These spots were the same color of the car because this has been a misconception.

315
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,440
Some people have thought that they were different color but it was the same color of the car.

316
00:28:54,440 --> 00:29:00,440
Only as if it had been highly polished, this is a circle of polish.

317
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:01,440
I see.

318
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,440
And there must have been around 15 to 20 of these spots in no particular pattern.

319
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,440
Just spotted throughout the trunk.

320
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:10,440
Around the trunk area.

321
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:11,440
Yes.

322
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:17,440
And when placing the compass over the spot, the compass would revolve very erratically.

323
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:22,440
The reason I wasn't too interested about taking the compass out is because I knew that a car with invariably

324
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:30,440
or any kind of metal type would attract the magnet of the compass toward it.

325
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:36,440
So I didn't find anything too upsetting about that except that when putting the compass over the spot

326
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,440
then it would erratically revolve.

327
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,440
Yes.

328
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,440
So Betty then decided that there's only one thing to do with this.

329
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:50,440
That is to notify the police there for a phase which is a fact base in our town, in our area.

330
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,440
And she called.

331
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:58,440
I told her, well okay, you may but you mustn't give my name or tell anything about me.

332
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:03,440
Well this was ridiculous on my part because obviously she had to say that her husband was with her on the occasion.

333
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:04,440
Yes.

334
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:10,440
So there's next, after questioning her, the next action would have been, well now let us speak to your husband.

335
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:11,440
Yes.

336
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,440
So I did got involved.

337
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:20,440
But as I have pointed out in the book that Mr. Fuller has written documenting this story,

338
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:27,440
I pointed out that after talking with these officers by form at peace, I felt a great relief

339
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,440
because they handled it with great dignity, you might say.

340
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,440
In a very official way.

341
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:40,440
And as if this was the responsible thing that she and I should have done is to report it to them.

342
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:41,440
Yes.

343
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:47,440
They also said that we were going to be hooked up with another phone.

344
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,440
They didn't tell us at this time and it would be monitored.

345
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:58,440
We later learned that this would have been hooked up to write Paterson Health for the State where we again told the same story.

346
00:30:58,440 --> 00:30:59,440
Yes.

347
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:07,440
And they called back a few times to ask us about details concerning the structure of the craft, its maneuverability, etc.

348
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,440
And that was the only official interview we had with the military.

349
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,440
No one ever came out to the house.

350
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:23,440
Betty Beanewell obtained books from the library because neither of us knew anything about the so-called UFO flying saucer.

351
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:28,440
And she was like, interested now to find out just what did we see.

352
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:36,440
And these books that she went down to the library to obtain one contained information about reporting sightings to NYCAP,

353
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:47,440
a national investigative committee on aerial phenomenon, so she jotted off a letter to NYCAP and then they sent an investigator out to visit us from Boston.

354
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,440
They're located in Washington, the headquarters.

355
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,440
They have investigators throughout the country.

356
00:31:52,440 --> 00:32:01,440
So Walter Webb, a, you might call him, a scholar, he's a lecturer at Haten Planetarium, came to interview us.

357
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:12,440
And I found later, found out later that he did, this was greatly loved because there was the mention of me having seen Paterson speakers inside the craft.

358
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:13,440
Yes.

359
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:19,440
But after arriving later he said he was very impressed with the sincerity of both Betty and I.

360
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:27,440
He certainly did respond to Walter when he came to the house, an intelligent young man.

361
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:32,440
I thought, well, I didn't know what was going to come to visit me concerning this kind of a story.

362
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,440
Other scientists became interested.

363
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:52,440
They heard of this throughout now that we had reported it to NYCAP, a French newsletter to their subscribers, so that we never volunteered any of this information to any news media,

364
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,440
because we didn't want this kind of publicity.

365
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,440
So these other scientists got interested in it.

366
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:02,440
But NYCAP visited tours from different states, different areas.

367
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:16,440
And while going over this one day, we must have spent about 12 hours going over this great depth when they came up with the idea that we realized that from the time we left Overrock,

368
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:22,440
and the time we arrived in Portmouth, was close to six hours, then four hours, which we should have taken.

369
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:23,440
Yes.

370
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,440
Well, we were sort of, well, we hadn't really realized it.

371
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:37,440
But the fact that why after my dashing back to the car, at Indian Head screaming something's going to capture us, Betty remarked later,

372
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,440
do you believe in flying saucers?

373
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:50,440
And we have to understand that when I made this remark at Indian Head, and then this series of beeps, the next series of beeps occurred in the Plymouth Ashland area,

374
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,440
approximately 30 to 35 miles apart.

375
00:33:53,440 --> 00:34:04,440
And we could never fill in, we could never think and understand exactly what we had been doing from the first beep to the second beep.

376
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:10,440
Except to say that while I was driving the car, after I ran back at Indian Head,

377
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:16,440
I was driving and when the second beeps occurred in the Plymouth area, I'm driving the car.

378
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:22,440
And I don't know why she didn't tell me or ask me what's going to capture us, you see.

379
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:35,440
No, yes, no. Along with this, along with these scientific inquiries that you were sort of oriously, and I'm sure interestingly answering,

380
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:41,440
you and Betty had begun to have dreams. Had the dreams begun by this time?

381
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:51,440
Well, Betty had these dreams five days, or ten days, correction, ten days after the sighting in 1961.

382
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:59,440
And they lasted for only five days. This is very important because she did not dream of UFOs after it.

383
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,440
I did not have dreams.

384
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:02,440
You had not?

385
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:03,440
I had not.

386
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,440
Betty dreamed for what, five consecutive days?

387
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:07,440
Five consecutive days.

388
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,440
And what was the dream like, Betty?

389
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:10,440
You get it, Betty?

390
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:23,440
Well, actually, we found out later that my dreams were very, very similar to the information that we obtained under hypnosis.

391
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:33,440
There were some minor differences. And I think probably the most important difference is that in my dreams,

392
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:41,440
I may be argument, and I say more human than they were offended at the moment.

393
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:51,440
Well, now, that leads us. I know there's a great deal more to the story, but I think what we had better do now is go back to that moment,

394
00:35:51,440 --> 00:36:00,440
just after the first beeping, now, in order to do that, if I may very rapidly fill in our audience in the interest of time,

395
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:08,440
Betty and Barney Hill were so disturbed by the dreams that Betty had had. Is that true? Barney had had none.

396
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:09,440
Barney had no dreams.

397
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,440
But Betty had had dreams. And you were disturbed by these dreams.

398
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:14,440
Yes.

399
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:22,440
And you sought the help of a psychiatrist. Is my aura psychologist one of the first?

400
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,440
No, I think I have to structure this.

401
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:25,440
Five.

402
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:35,440
I think I have to go the proper way. Is after Betty had these dreams, then it was a matter of her later when Walter Webb came to interview us,

403
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,440
telling him, and filling in the entire story, she did mention about the dreams.

404
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:47,440
When the other two scientists came to the bar about this sighting, she mentioned this. She had also told me about the dreams.

405
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,440
And my conclusion was that is exactly what you had.

406
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:52,440
Yes.

407
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:53,440
Nothing more or less.

408
00:36:53,440 --> 00:37:01,440
But when they decided that there was a missing period here of approximately two hours,

409
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:07,440
also that it was obvious that we both had suffered amnesia at Indian Head,

410
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:12,440
and we did not come out of this dead-shake state until Plymouth,

411
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:19,440
or something very baffling, because this is highly improbable for two people to suffer amnesia at the same time.

412
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:20,440
Yes.

413
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:34,440
And this is a few months after she had had her dreams, that we began hoping to find a qualified psychiatrist,

414
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,440
preferably a person trained in the medical profession, conductive diagnosis.

415
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:47,440
We had an interview with one psychiatrist in Massachusetts, and he, after observing us, said that both of you people,

416
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:55,440
I felt pleased about this because he gave us the assurance that we were not hallucinating and that we were seeing.

417
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:56,440
Yes.

418
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:01,440
But he felt that since the experience was very recent, sit on it for a while,

419
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:06,440
and possibly it will open up the amnesia, you might open up in a natural way.

420
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:13,440
This would have been very soon after the sighting when we had this appointment with the psychiatrist,

421
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,440
and the doctor had noticed us.

422
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:23,440
Now, I had an offer that had not bothered people for much years, but it then began to bother me,

423
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:28,440
and it did not respond to any medication from the medical doctor,

424
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:34,440
and so he then decided, well, possibly it had some kind of psychological origin,

425
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:44,440
or a cause that had persisted in causing this distress with me, the offer itself.

426
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:52,440
So he suggested, based on some of the things I had told him about my son, teenagers,

427
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:59,440
and they were in another state and it wouldn't write, and I would get upset because I wasn't getting the kind of correspondence,

428
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:04,440
but Betty would say, well, I'm half of all this is teenage, but you know, boys don't like the right,

429
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:13,440
but it wasn't satisfying me, and so now I'm telling this to the psychiatrist as a part of why I had been upset thinking this was the reason for the offer.

430
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:23,440
But I one day mentioned to him how Betty and I had seen a UFO, and as a result of it,

431
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:29,440
well, it looked as if we both had amnesia at the same time because then I told him briefly what we know.

432
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:36,440
So he recognized that this was possibly the cause of my offer.

433
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:43,440
Two people, Betty had had her nightmare streamed several years ago, that is, they ran for five days,

434
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,440
but they were still plaguing while bothering her.

435
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:51,440
Several years later, my offer not responding to medical medicine,

436
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:57,440
and we are primary concerned about an experience that had happened in 1961.

437
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,440
This is now the latter part of 1963.

438
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:09,440
But he then recommended that we, that he would establish an appointment with us to visit this psychiatrist,

439
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:17,440
and Dr. Benjamin Simon, a very qualified, prominent psychiatrist,

440
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:25,440
and well, you might say, qualified to regret one back with the use of hypnotherapy.

441
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:33,440
Yes, now, it was Dr. Simon who elected to use hypnotherapy because it was a more expedient means.

442
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,440
It was, this is what he determined after the consultation.

443
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:44,440
We set up, we established an appointment, both Betty and I went together when we kept this appointment,

444
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:49,440
and he immediately could recognize that we both had amnesia at the same time,

445
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:58,440
and that he then decided that one way of opening the amnesia, the amnesia itself,

446
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:03,440
could possibly be the technique of the specific hypnosis.

447
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:11,440
All right, now, at the point at which Dr. Simon began to treat both of you using hypnosis,

448
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:19,440
let's go back now and reconstruct from that first moment on the highway on Route 3 heading south.

449
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:24,440
When you heard those beats rather than go into Dr. Simon's office,

450
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:30,440
I think it would be better now for you to tell us what you now have had opened up to you

451
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:35,440
through hypnosis and through the psychiatric treatment of Dr. Simon.

452
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:40,440
Let's go back to those first beatings and pick up the story from there

453
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,440
and reconstruct those missing two hours.

454
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:52,440
Well, I first was carried through the experience in a regressive recall by Dr. Simon,

455
00:41:52,440 --> 00:42:03,440
and I also would like to point out that at no time, whenever information was being extracted from a guile in a deep trance,

456
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:10,440
Betty and I in the same room together, I would spend maybe an hour in a deep trance telling him and the doctor within,

457
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:16,440
leave a post-synagogical suggestion that I would not remember anything that I had told him,

458
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:21,440
and we do the same with Betty, and this way it prevents us from telling each other

459
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,440
what we were telling the doctor while we regressed back to that period.

460
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:32,440
Yes, it's very unusual for one psychiatrist, as I understand it, to treat two people, particularly a man and wife,

461
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:40,440
but in this instance because of this dual experience, each of you having experienced the same thing,

462
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:52,440
I can see where the course of treatment and the method of one psychiatrist handling both patients was a logical and ethical expedient.

463
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:53,440
Yes.

464
00:42:53,440 --> 00:43:01,440
Okay, I saw now under regressive diagnosis, after returning to the car,

465
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:12,440
I would rather, while out in the field, it seems as if there was some communication between this object hovering in the sky.

466
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:22,440
I could always remember one person continuing to stay in that plate class, looking back at me while the others moved away from the glass itself,

467
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:27,440
reaching up, as I described as reaching to a water panel.

468
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:28,440
Yes.

469
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,440
I accept this one, that continues to stay back at me.

470
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:42,440
Now under regressive diagnosis, it seems as if I was being compelled to come closer to this craft, actually being told to come close to the craft.

471
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:48,440
Now, we have to realize that the craft was approximately 100 feet away from me up in the air.

472
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,440
It's not on the ground at this point.

473
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,440
Yet there was this kind of communication that I was receiving.

474
00:43:54,440 --> 00:44:01,440
I had my binoculars up to my eyes and I was also told he keeps them there, not take them away.

475
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:08,440
I pulled him somehow, as well as the tapes of the hypnosis, were very emotional.

476
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,440
And I screamed and pulled the binoculars from my eyes.

477
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,440
And I also broke the straps.

478
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:20,440
Now I failed to mention that when we returned to Pluton, that made of us looking at my binoculars, I noticed the straps was broken.

479
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,440
And I wondered if Betty had somehow broken the straps.

480
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,440
And then I questioned my son and asked if they had broken my straps.

481
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:32,440
I never knew all those months until now, we got back to that period standing in the field.

482
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:41,440
And then pulling the binoculars from my eyes, except for fourth, they parted, the straps parted from around my neck.

483
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,440
So then you were really friar, let's be afraid.

484
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:44,440
Yes.

485
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:51,440
And then I dashed back to the car and then upon entering the car, there was a series of beeps.

486
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,440
And there was this oblivion where I didn't remember anything.

487
00:44:54,440 --> 00:45:01,440
But under regressive hypnosis, where I am made to recall exactly what I am doing, I am driving the car.

488
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:12,440
And I drive towards the south on Route 3, where I leave Route 3, driving off into a very desolate spot, a part of the mountain section.

489
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:19,440
Where there is no car traffic at that time of night, incidentally there wasn't any traffic on Route 3.

490
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,440
Because we have to realize this is afterly.

491
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:28,440
But they, up there in the White Mountains, after September 7th, it is very desolate spot at night.

492
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,440
Yes, without turning off, you turned off Route 3.

493
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:36,440
You turned away, I drove off Route 3 and into a very desolate wooded area.

494
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:40,440
Even under the regressive treatment, can you recall any motive for turning off?

495
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,440
Yes, I am being told to.

496
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,440
I am actually being told.

497
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:49,440
Even after returning to the car, it seems as if, and I think of the words of mine,

498
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:54,440
if there had been damage done to me, it was done at that time I was standing in the field.

499
00:45:54,440 --> 00:46:00,440
Because it seems as if even after returning to the car, I am being directed to drive down to this spot

500
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:05,440
and meet the highway where I made this left turn and I could turn to drive.

501
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,440
And then suddenly there are these men standing in the road.

502
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:16,440
Upon getting into this desolate area spot, I suddenly saw a huge orange grove.

503
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:25,440
Now this is interesting because both Betty and I consciously remember somehow of seeing an orange ball in the road.

504
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:31,440
But we could never go any further than somehow we could see and always remember an orange ball in the road.

505
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,440
And our remark was that well it must have been the moon.

506
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:35,440
And then we dismissed it.

507
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:41,440
But now under aggressive hypnosis, I can see this orange ball diminishing in bright,

508
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:46,440
in some orange as a bright color, into a duller color where it eventually delights.

509
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,440
This is complete doubt, this darkness.

510
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:54,440
And these men are standing in the road several of them begging for me to halt.

511
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:55,440
Well the car stopped.

512
00:46:55,440 --> 00:47:00,440
Now the car stopped and I am trying to get it going and I don't get any of its ignition.

513
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:01,440
The lights are out.

514
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:02,440
I am very confused.

515
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,440
I am in a total state of confusion.

516
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,440
And I started to get out of the car.

517
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:11,440
I had a tire iron that I had taken from the trunk of the car further back on Route 3.

518
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:16,440
When we were watching this thing before we had arrived at Indian Head.

519
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:22,440
And I tried to get to that and the door was open and there were these men standing by.

520
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,440
And I thought well are they going to rob me?

521
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,440
And then one pulled me from the car.

522
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:27,440
Not in a violent way.

523
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,440
But more or less as if I was partly complying.

524
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:37,440
And I stepped from the car where they literally dragged me, though I was in an upright position,

525
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:48,440
down and around the car and into the woods and to where I could see the dark outline of a physical structure kind of thing.

526
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,440
Now Barney, can you, for just a moment can we pause?

527
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:57,440
Can you describe, are you able to describe what these men looked like?

528
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:58,440
Are they real trash?

529
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:03,440
Well, when I saw them standing in the headlights of the car before the lights went out,

530
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,440
they were in dark, similar kind of garment.

531
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:11,440
And I called it a uniform which I thought as a paycheck.

532
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:16,440
I also understand Alan, that in critical situations,

533
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:22,440
we continually try to put things into the frame of reference that we can identify with as a natural thing.

534
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,440
So that I thought of the uniform being much like a Navy P-jacket.

535
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,440
Barney, may I interrupt just one second?

536
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:30,440
Sure.

537
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:38,440
Was the one of these six people, or creatures on the road, wearing a visor on a cap?

538
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:39,440
No.

539
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:40,440
No.

540
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:49,440
I think that you had told me at one time that in the last partition of the Bob, as you were looking up,

541
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,440
one appeared to have like a cap.

542
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:52,440
A military cap on.

543
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,440
Yeah, but that you did not now recognize.

544
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,440
No, I did not recognize any caps.

545
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:57,440
Thank you.

546
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:03,440
But while in the field at Indian Head, I described one that I was looking with the binoculars at,

547
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:10,440
that continued to stay at this panel glass as having a military type visor cap.

548
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:15,440
So I was taken from the car and I actually was very impressed.

549
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:24,440
And as I pointed out, Jack towards the wood, and I was being told that no harm would come to me and to keep my eyes closed.

550
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,440
And I was then carried off a ramp.

551
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:31,440
This is interesting because Betty had never mentioned ramp in her dreams.

552
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:37,440
I was carried up a ramp where my feet struck a gate, a high rise at the door, at the doorstep,

553
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,440
where they bumped over this object.

554
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:46,440
And this was sort of a fleeting thing of recognizing that my feet are bumping something, you might say.

555
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:55,440
And I opened my eyes just fleetingly and I could see this corridor that curved around the inside of the grass,

556
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,440
where the rooms were on the inner side of the corridor.

557
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:00,440
Yes.

558
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:05,440
And I was carried past one door into another door and there was this room in a pie shape.

559
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:11,440
Well, as I described it, much like a pie with the point of the pie cut off.

560
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:15,440
And it was just one table that was very small for my body.

561
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:20,440
I'm about five foot eight, where I was, I lie down.

562
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:29,440
I got off to the table myself and I am continually hearing this voice that is telling me that no harm is going to come to me.

563
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:34,440
It's only a matter of a few tests that are going to be conducted.

564
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,440
Just as some of the more or less remained calm.

565
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:43,440
The room will be over with and I'll be about my business with no damage done.

566
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:50,440
Now, Bonnie, when you say you continually keep hearing this voice, it's a voice that you apparently are hearing with your mind,

567
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,440
but you're not hearing anybody speak, are you?

568
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,440
Well, I am hearing it much.

569
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:58,440
I do it under deep hypnosis.

570
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:06,440
I gave the doctor what I considered an analogy about explaining the circumstances and the situation.

571
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:11,440
Sometimes it's difficult to explain things in abstract terms to find the words to fit the picture.

572
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:16,440
But I explained it to the doctor while I was in a deep trance by Dr. Reimann,

573
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:23,440
that though I had a sense of awareness in deep trance in the doctor's office,

574
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:28,440
and he was sitting across from me, once I had been placed into a deep trance,

575
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:35,440
I no longer knew that he actually was sitting across from me, but I knew that some way he was surrounded in the room.

576
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,440
And I could hear his voice.

577
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,440
I could hear his voice, but I couldn't tell.

578
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:45,440
If I was asked to point out in a direction where the voice is coming from, I wouldn't have been able to tell.

579
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,440
Does this give you the feeling that I'm trying to survive at this time?

580
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,440
You definitely did hear with your ears.

581
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,440
Well, I could hear.

582
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:58,440
We get into the matter of did they speak English?

583
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:03,440
I don't know. I only know that I knew what was expected of me, and I complied.

584
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:11,440
I thought of a willingness on my part and great fear and terror to comply with the belief that I had been assured that no harm was going to come to me,

585
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:16,440
and I would go along with this and eventually and hopefully to be on my way.

586
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:20,440
In any case, you are totally without a will of your own, is that it?

587
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:26,440
Correct. This is the best way to say I did not have any will of my own, my own but no resistance.

588
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:31,440
No, I won't be concerned about Betty's will or whereabouts.

589
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:37,440
I might feel a little guilty as a father or husband to not be concerned about my life,

590
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:44,440
but this is such a terrifying situation that I was only concerned about myself and I was being assured that I wasn't going to be harmed.

591
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:56,440
So that I was based on this table where my trousers were removed and my shirt was pulled up toward my head, which would have made my back.

592
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:00,440
My under shirt was pulled up along with it where my back would have been there,

593
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:13,440
and I would turn over on my back and my stomach as well as while I could feel what I called a spinger going up and down the spinal column.

594
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,440
I could feel this and I could feel it.

595
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:23,440
You know, Alan, when I tell this, I still feel very uncomfortable.

596
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:34,440
Yes, I can tell that as you describe the experience aboard the craft that you're very upset and I sense that Betty is upset too. Is it true?

597
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:41,440
Somewhat. We do build up pressure when we talk about that.

598
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:46,440
It's not a matter of being on the radio because you have been on before.

599
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:47,440
Yes.

600
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:52,440
So that it does do something to you apparently to recount this experience now.

601
00:53:52,440 --> 00:54:03,440
We have a copy also of the tape with us under Regressive Hypnosis and it must have taken a year before Betty and I could sit down and really listen to the entire context.

602
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:13,440
Now while in the doctor's office when he played the tapes back, funneling this back into our conscious memory, this was the reason he decided to recall at this own tape.

603
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,440
Was this the method by which he affected back to you?

604
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:23,440
This was a part of the method. He also used it for the product suggestions while we were in a train.

605
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:33,440
Just by way of interest, how long did the entire treatment take from the time Dr. Simon began to treat you until you finished?

606
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:38,440
From January until the early part of July.

607
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,440
January through July?

608
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:41,440
Yes.

609
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,440
And this was once every week?

610
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:49,440
This was every week, every Saturday morning. Betty and I are paid to visit to his office.

611
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,440
May I pause for just a moment Barney and Betty?

612
00:54:52,440 --> 00:55:00,440
We'll be back in just a moment to continue this fantastic, fascinating tale told to us tonight by Betty and Barney Hill.

613
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaking to us long distance from the residence at Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

614
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:11,440
Earl L. Lapp is visiting with us tonight. Earl is a noted Cleveland ufologist and a documenter.

615
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:17,440
And I have never seen Earl so quiet. On the other hand, you've never heard me shut up to this extent.

616
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:28,440
But I must say that I am enjoying this story as it is told so completely and so rationally by Betty and Barney Hill.

617
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,440
Earl, do you want to say something?

618
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:40,440
I would like to say that many times people ask me, both on radio or by the letter, if I've gone, where they can learn about things like this.

619
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:45,440
Well, the best way to learn is to go to organizations where these things are discussed.

620
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:52,440
In the Cleveland area, the Cleveland Ufology Project, one of the fine organizations that have existed for many years.

621
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:59,440
And we meet the third Saturday of every month at 8 to 11 p.m.

622
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:04,440
And this is at the Kintarma that's about a block beyond Snow Road on Pearl.

623
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:14,440
My name, incidentally, is Alan Douglas, listening to the Fascinating Tales, a fascinating story of Betty and Barney Hill and their two lost hours.

624
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:23,440
I would like very much to convey to the audience my impression at this moment of Betty and Barney Hill.

625
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:30,440
These are two extremely intelligent and sensitive human beings.

626
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:37,440
And I find from this experience that I have a tendency to like them.

627
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:42,440
I think that I would find them as friends if I knew them better.

628
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:57,440
Let me say that the story that we are hearing is a story that is documented in the opinion of a noted Boston psychiatrist as being told by two people who implicitly believe it.

629
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:00,440
And I think this is very important to remember.

630
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:05,440
Now, back to you, Barney, and this experience of having been physically examined.

631
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:12,440
Did you ever determine in your own mind what it may have been they were looking for, what they were trying to learn from you?

632
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:21,440
No, I have not, Alan. I'd like to just go back and elaborate just briefly on your last remark about callers.

633
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:27,440
This doesn't distress me when you understand why we have released this information.

634
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:37,440
Number one, after the regressive diagnosis, we then decided that we would never let this go any further.

635
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:42,440
It would all be continually investigated on the scientific level.

636
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:49,440
Well, we have friends, and so we would occasionally tell close friends and confidants.

637
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:53,440
Well, they have friends, and so to give a tell, they're friends and confidants.

638
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:58,440
And in a military town, the story eventually got out and really spread.

639
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,440
But this is only by word of mouth.

640
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:07,440
And a reporter in Massachusetts heard of it one day, and he decided to investigate.

641
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:08,440
To the John Luttrell?

642
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:09,440
Yes.

643
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:17,440
And he called us to ask for verification of what he had pieced together, and we named not to write the story.

644
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:18,440
Yes.

645
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,440
But the story was written anyway without eye cooperation.

646
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:24,440
It's strange. Newspaper people have kind of a penchant for that.

647
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:34,440
So we then began, this is when the pressure was on us, because we then began getting the misconceptions of the newspaper article.

648
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:40,440
People would ask, well, now when you took the trip to Venus or when you were on Mars, or what was it like on the moon?

649
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:44,440
It just upset me very badly, because we had never said any of these things.

650
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:52,440
And we had another visit with Dr. Simon, and we discussed this thoroughly, and he decided that for our well-being,

651
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:58,440
it would be best for the total documentation to come out, the facts.

652
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:07,440
And all we have consented to do is to release all the facts containing this entire experiment, the experience,

653
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,440
and the reader would have to make their own decisions.

654
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:14,440
So one can't believe the story. This is only natural.

655
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:24,440
I would find it's a good belief I'd solve if I heard of this kind of story, so that it is the support of the regressive,

656
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:34,440
the regression back to that period of time, the qualifications of the characters that was involved,

657
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:40,440
these are the reasons that I can tonight talk to you over the phone, and tell you about the documentation.

658
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:47,440
Well, then in a way, the fact that this story got out has, if anything, strengthened you, hasn't it?

659
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:51,440
The fact that the story got out and then subsequently had to be documented.

660
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:56,440
That is a full story with all the facts released as you know them, and as you believe them to be.

661
00:59:56,440 --> 01:00:00,440
This has sort of strengthened you as an individual, hasn't it?

662
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:04,440
Well, I don't know. I think I have misgivings about it occasionally.

663
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:05,440
Really?

664
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:10,440
Yes, sometimes I don't feel too happy about it, and there are other times that I feel that,

665
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:18,440
well, the story was going to be told, it would have to be told, even if someone heard about it, it would have been written somehow or another.

666
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:22,440
So these are just circumstances, and this is it.

667
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:32,440
But with this examination, I remembered a tug at my teeth, and this is the way I described it,

668
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:40,440
and also while on this position of being examined, I opened my eyes again, slatingly,

669
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:47,440
because I could hear a kind of noise of as if people or someone was talking.

670
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:53,440
I opened my eyes and I looked and I saw these three short men, and this is when I got a good look at the face.

671
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:59,440
And I immediately closed my eyes because what I saw was terrifying by as standard.

672
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:03,440
It doesn't mean that they were terrifying.

673
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,440
Well, how would you describe what you saw?

674
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:12,440
I saw this kind of grayish color, and this is interesting because most people, they know,

675
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:20,440
when you saw the little green men, and they were not green men, they were a grayish metallic kind of gray in color.

676
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:28,440
And I might also say that I'm quite sure they were not wearing a mask or rather any kind of apparatus over the head for breathing purposes,

677
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:35,440
because I could see what would have been a mouth, a thin line, without a lip muscle,

678
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:42,440
that when parting, when opened, there was a membrane inside that fluttered,

679
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:51,440
really right at the end of the mouth itself, and this fluttered, and this seemed to be a way that they communicated with one another,

680
01:01:51,440 --> 01:02:00,440
with a very peculiar kind of mumbling, humming sound, and I also tried to give an analogy here,

681
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:06,440
is the sound we have heard when someone in a commercial is speaking underwater,

682
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:13,440
we have all been acquainted with that in cartoons where he is up something underwater and it has that kind of a sound.

683
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:14,440
Good reading sound.

684
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:20,440
A burglary sound, and this was very backling, and the head, the cranium was very large,

685
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:25,440
the men are moving down toward the chin into a very small chin,

686
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:34,440
and the eyes were very, very distinguishing because they were very large at the front of the face,

687
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:40,440
but only continued back, and I did not notice any ears, I can't remember seeing ears,

688
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:45,440
but the eyes continued back where you might say eye ears are located,

689
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:49,440
which means that they were quite long and large inside,

690
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:56,440
I said that they were not like an oriental eye, but yet we might say that we would think of an oriental eye.

691
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:58,440
How tall were these men?

692
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:05,440
They were approximately, I would say, 4.5 to 5 feet in total height, no taller than that,

693
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:14,440
and also that there was the absence of the nose as we understand it, but just the nostrils and tooth slit.

694
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:21,440
Now, there was an absence of the nose and just a nostril in tooth slit.

695
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:31,440
Now, Betty, you described in your dream that you had more or less in your dreams reconstructed these individuals

696
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:38,440
as human or as human types of people through the normal process of identification perhaps,

697
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:43,440
but now in your regressive hypnosis, how did you envision these people?

698
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:47,440
How do you now recollect them? Are they similar to Barney's?

699
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:56,440
Yes, I think they are probably the most significant factor to me with the HCI.

700
01:03:56,440 --> 01:04:06,440
Now, I'm going to ask Earl Neff, who has a piece of information that neither of you,

701
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:13,440
I don't believe could possibly know about unless you have been in much closer contact with some night cat people

702
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:18,440
and some investigators and perhaps we realize, and I think it's very important now at this point,

703
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:26,440
after this description of these creatures, to have Earl tell us about another experience that took place,

704
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:31,440
I believe, a few years previous to yours in Brazil.

705
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:34,440
Earl, can you very quickly tell Betty and Barney about it?

706
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:39,440
I'm going to tell you a little bit about this woman by the name of Antonio Villas-Buervez,

707
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,440
a 23-year-old chap.

708
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:50,440
I learned about this through Carl Lorenzen, the woman who has, with her husband, James,

709
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:55,440
has Afro-organization, the oldest organization in this kind of the world,

710
01:04:55,440 --> 01:05:02,440
and this took place, this incident, took place in Minas Gerais, Brazil

711
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:09,440
at 11.30 am on the morning of October 15, 1957.

712
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:18,440
It was a very strange event that took place and it somewhat parallels, in a way,

713
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:21,440
what few folks have experienced.

714
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:26,440
There are two nights of manifestations of strange lights near the farm of his parents,

715
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:33,440
and this was near this town of Francisco de Salos in the state of Minas Gerais, Brazil.

716
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:39,440
The first two incidents were witnessed by Antonio's brother, Joe,

717
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:46,440
this young man was riding, he was plowing a tractor he was riding on, in a field near his home,

718
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:52,440
when his attention was arrested by what appeared to be a very bright star.

719
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:56,440
This again you see relatively parallels yours in the beginning,

720
01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:05,440
which he shortly realized afterwards was not a star at all, but a brilliantly lit egg-shaped object approaching at high speed,

721
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:14,440
and shortly was hovering overhead at an altitude of about 175 feet, and illuminates the ground with a bright red light.

722
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:21,440
Antonio, more or less panicked, could realize he couldn't escape the thing because of the soft clouds ground in the field,

723
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:25,440
and so he sat there, rooted to his tractor seat, you might say.

724
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:33,440
As he sat there, the object moved again and settled slowly to the ground about 15 yards away, and he got a very good look at it.

725
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:39,440
Now, it looked like an elongated egg, sort of a torpedo shaped or a cigar shaped,

726
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:47,440
with small perpish lights all over it, a huge red light on the leading end, and three metal bars protruding from the end.

727
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:55,440
And on the top of the object was something which rotated at high speed and gave off a sharp fluorescent red light.

728
01:06:55,440 --> 01:07:02,440
This began to turn green the moment the object slowed, probably in preparation for landing,

729
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:09,440
but as it slowed, the top became more visible and appeared as a round plate or squashed tubula.

730
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:14,440
Three props or metal legs emerged from the underside of this craft,

731
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:21,440
and at this point Antonio was thoroughly frightened and attempted to move the tractor away,

732
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:24,440
and then the tractor quit and the lights went out.

733
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:27,440
Now, this probably was due to electromagnetic force fields.

734
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:34,440
He tried to start up the engine, but it was unsuccessful, and then he opened the door of the tractor, jumped out and started running.

735
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:39,440
At this point, he was caught short by something that grasped his arm.

736
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:48,440
As he turned to shake off the pursuer, he came face to face with a small figure dressed in gray striped suit with a strange helmet,

737
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:53,440
which entirely covered the head, showing only the eyes through a faceplate.

738
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:59,440
There were tubes that led from the top of this helmet to a point on a suit at the back of it.

739
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:06,440
Then Antonio pushed the creature and started running, and whereupon he was grabbed by three other creatures,

740
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,440
all a little taller than the first one.

741
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:12,440
He was then lifted and dragged to the ship.

742
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:19,440
Now, as I remember, Bonnie, when you were speaking before they were taking you up on this ramp,

743
01:08:19,440 --> 01:08:25,440
they more or less dragged you, and as I recall, to the toes of your shoe more or less were scuffed, is that correct?

744
01:08:25,440 --> 01:08:29,440
He occasionally called for help, even cursing his captors.

745
01:08:29,440 --> 01:08:39,440
Further on, he speaks of where, sometime later in fact, the door of this object opened.

746
01:08:39,440 --> 01:08:47,440
He was in, by the way, I might go back a little ways and state that it was sort of a bed-like thing that he was asked to lay the lie down on,

747
01:08:47,440 --> 01:08:53,440
and that this was covered with a soft-grain material and situated in the center of the room.

748
01:08:53,440 --> 01:08:56,440
It was curiously humped up in the middle.

749
01:08:56,440 --> 01:09:03,440
It was then, while he was lying down, that he noted the presence of tiny holes in the walls, which were giving off a grayish vapor.

750
01:09:03,440 --> 01:09:10,440
Sometime later, the door opened, and two of the men led a woman into the room and then closed the door on left.

751
01:09:10,440 --> 01:09:13,440
Now, the woman is described in this manner.

752
01:09:13,440 --> 01:09:16,440
She was about four feet six inches tall.

753
01:09:16,440 --> 01:09:26,440
She was fair skinned, blue-eyed, and darkly outlined, wide-set slanted eyes, which gave her the look of an ancient Egyptian painting.

754
01:09:26,440 --> 01:09:36,440
Her hair, however, was blonde and nearly white, you might say, and it was short, expanding only to about an inch or two below the earlobes.

755
01:09:36,440 --> 01:09:40,440
This was part of the middle and turned under slightly.

756
01:09:40,440 --> 01:09:48,440
Her face was very broad through the cheekbones, which seemed to be quite pronounced, and tapered to a very point, small chin.

757
01:09:48,440 --> 01:09:55,440
Her nose appeared to be normal, but her mouth was only a slit, completely without lips.

758
01:09:55,440 --> 01:10:00,440
She was well-formed, and this was quite easy to see as she was completely naked,

759
01:10:00,440 --> 01:10:05,440
and all in all gave the general impression of a very beautiful woman.

760
01:10:05,440 --> 01:10:13,440
Now, the woman's purpose was instantly obvious, for she set about to seduce Antonio, succeeding twice.

761
01:10:13,440 --> 01:10:18,440
After the second act was complete, the woman was called for by the two men and left the room.

762
01:10:18,440 --> 01:10:25,440
But just before leaving, she pointed to Antonio, then she pointed to her stomach, then down toward the earth,

763
01:10:25,440 --> 01:10:29,440
and to what he thought was the southern sky and smiles.

764
01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:35,440
Then he was given his clothes, and I'll accept his cigarette lighter, and furiously taken us from the ship.

765
01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:39,440
But I thought you should know about this, there's more, but I don't want to take time to tell you.

766
01:10:39,440 --> 01:10:41,440
Has anybody told you about this incident at all?

767
01:10:41,440 --> 01:10:48,440
Well, I don't know how you feel having the incident related to you, but there are some striking points of similarity,

768
01:10:48,440 --> 01:10:55,440
and both Earl and I were talking about this earlier this evening, and Earl pointed out that there could be, in all probability,

769
01:10:55,440 --> 01:10:58,440
for you to know of this particular experience.

770
01:10:58,440 --> 01:11:00,440
I think I've heard of it.

771
01:11:00,440 --> 01:11:06,440
The army, this other part of this seduction, nothing like that is in place with me,

772
01:11:06,440 --> 01:11:15,440
but I described a metal, a cup-like object being placed over my lower...

773
01:11:15,440 --> 01:11:16,440
Over the grind?

774
01:11:16,440 --> 01:11:17,440
Yes.

775
01:11:17,440 --> 01:11:26,440
And I could feel it being placed, and as if there was some kind of...

776
01:11:26,440 --> 01:11:33,440
I was thinking of the word vibration, but this doesn't describe what I am trying to say.

777
01:11:33,440 --> 01:11:40,440
As if something was movable in a soft way, and it was placed over me, and it was removed.

778
01:11:40,440 --> 01:11:48,440
I don't know the reason for it, but this is where I later developed the words that came on my body.

779
01:11:48,440 --> 01:11:57,440
And Betty, as I understand it, you were interested in performing what they described to you, you say, as a pregnancy test.

780
01:11:57,440 --> 01:12:01,440
Well, this is what they call that.

781
01:12:01,440 --> 01:12:03,440
This is the...

782
01:12:03,440 --> 01:12:10,440
...trending of a needle-like apparatus of some kind into my navel.

783
01:12:10,440 --> 01:12:14,440
And it was painful, at first, you say?

784
01:12:14,440 --> 01:12:17,440
It was quite painful, yes.

785
01:12:17,440 --> 01:12:25,440
And I was very upset, even when I realized what they were going to do, and asked them not to do this.

786
01:12:25,440 --> 01:12:29,440
And it seemed to take it with not fear.

787
01:12:29,440 --> 01:12:32,440
And it seemed to be quite surprised that it did.

788
01:12:32,440 --> 01:12:42,440
And the man I... the one I called the leader, rubbed his hand in front of my eyes, and the pain went away.

789
01:12:42,440 --> 01:12:51,440
I see. Now, when the pain went away, did you ever feel any discomfort or pain afterward in any of your conscious memory?

790
01:12:51,440 --> 01:12:52,440
No.

791
01:12:52,440 --> 01:12:53,440
No discomfort?

792
01:12:53,440 --> 01:12:55,440
No, not what I could remember.

793
01:12:55,440 --> 01:13:02,440
Did you feel impelled at any time to have yourself examined by a doctor? Of course, this all came later, didn't it?

794
01:13:02,440 --> 01:13:09,440
Yes, this was the experience that all happened in 1961, and this notice was in 1964.

795
01:13:09,440 --> 01:13:13,440
So it was quite time-wrapped, I see.

796
01:13:13,440 --> 01:13:15,440
And I wasn't aware of this.

797
01:13:15,440 --> 01:13:16,440
I see.

798
01:13:16,440 --> 01:13:20,440
And I never did make a boy to a doctor about it.

799
01:13:20,440 --> 01:13:30,440
And so you weren't even aware of that part of the experience until you, several years later, were regressed, hypnotically.

800
01:13:30,440 --> 01:13:31,440
That's right.

801
01:13:31,440 --> 01:13:34,440
Barney, what about the rash on your back?

802
01:13:34,440 --> 01:13:35,440
Not a rash.

803
01:13:35,440 --> 01:13:37,440
These were warts on your right.

804
01:13:37,440 --> 01:13:38,440
On the right.

805
01:13:38,440 --> 01:13:51,440
Yes. The doctor took the position that these warts were, I might say, could have been of a natural development.

806
01:13:51,440 --> 01:13:58,440
Well, I'll tell you, it's a heck of a question to ever ask a doctor because they haven't found out yet for sure what it caused my red-bound warts, right?

807
01:13:58,440 --> 01:13:59,440
Yes.

808
01:13:59,440 --> 01:14:04,440
So I guess we really can't answer that question, and we can't logically expect the doctor to as yet.

809
01:14:04,440 --> 01:14:18,440
I asked the leader where he came from, and he stepped over by the wall and put his hand on the wall, and these panels were back, and a map came out, which I believe would be called a sky map.

810
01:14:18,440 --> 01:14:24,440
And while the map was exposed, he asked me if I knew where the Earth was.

811
01:14:24,440 --> 01:14:28,440
And for that to tell him I did not know there.

812
01:14:28,440 --> 01:14:32,440
And he acted a little disgusted with me.

813
01:14:32,440 --> 01:14:36,440
And I did get a look at the map.

814
01:14:36,440 --> 01:14:43,440
He did not say just where he came from on it, but I noticed certain things about it.

815
01:14:43,440 --> 01:14:52,440
I did ask him if there was any line, heavy solid line, lighter solid line, and broken line.

816
01:14:52,440 --> 01:14:54,440
And I asked him the meaning of these.

817
01:14:54,440 --> 01:14:58,440
He said the heavy lines were trade lines.

818
01:14:58,440 --> 01:15:06,440
In the light lines, there are places that they go sometimes, but the program lines are expeditions.

819
01:15:06,440 --> 01:15:07,440
I see.

820
01:15:07,440 --> 01:15:09,440
Trade lines.

821
01:15:09,440 --> 01:15:10,440
I see.

822
01:15:10,440 --> 01:15:11,440
Yes.

823
01:15:11,440 --> 01:15:17,440
And incidentally, it should be mentioned that your sketches appear in the book, The Interrupted Journey.

824
01:15:17,440 --> 01:15:18,440
Yes, very true.

825
01:15:18,440 --> 01:15:26,440
And this would be, I think, a more complete way of feeding an answer to that question.

826
01:15:26,440 --> 01:15:33,440
Perhaps both Betty and Barney will tell us how they feel about it and what they believe it to be.

827
01:15:33,440 --> 01:15:44,440
Shortly after the sighting, and after the investigation by the scientists that became involved in the experience that Betty and I had,

828
01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:50,440
where they noticed that this thing had been amnesia experienced by both of us,

829
01:15:50,440 --> 01:15:54,440
we visited a psychiatrist in Massachusetts.

830
01:15:54,440 --> 01:16:00,440
And he, and I also mentioned how he had suggested that this was a very recent experience,

831
01:16:00,440 --> 01:16:08,440
and possibly amnesia would open up any natural way where we would, in the course of time, begin to remember.

832
01:16:08,440 --> 01:16:13,440
We never did this result that later in our going to Dr. Simon.

833
01:16:13,440 --> 01:16:19,440
As I understand it, I think the implication of the question may be slightly obscured,

834
01:16:19,440 --> 01:16:25,440
but what he really wanted to know was, is there a history of any mental disorder?

835
01:16:25,440 --> 01:16:27,440
No, there is no history of any mental disorder.

836
01:16:27,440 --> 01:16:32,440
And you did that you had never, previously either of you, had an occasion to visit a psychiatrist.

837
01:16:32,440 --> 01:16:33,440
All right.

838
01:16:33,440 --> 01:16:35,440
I think that's really what the man wants to know.

839
01:16:35,440 --> 01:16:42,440
Now, I'd like to also briefly make a statement concerning, as you point out, the matter of serenity,

840
01:16:42,440 --> 01:16:53,440
concerning the word of the documentary, documentation, that what we mean when we say documented is that there is the existence of the tapes

841
01:16:53,440 --> 01:16:59,440
of Betty and I both regressed back while in a deep, trans-like state,

842
01:16:59,440 --> 01:17:08,440
articulating a set of experiences in the most controlled way, the most scientific controlled way that it catches could possibly do it.

843
01:17:08,440 --> 01:17:11,440
And this is what is meant by documentation.

844
01:17:11,440 --> 01:17:12,440
All right, very good.

845
01:17:12,440 --> 01:17:14,440
Now, who received the fund?

846
01:17:14,440 --> 01:17:16,440
Who did look like it was in pay for that?

847
01:17:16,440 --> 01:17:26,440
Well, we have to understand that obviously, when the story was publicized in one of the papers here in the East,

848
01:17:26,440 --> 01:17:32,440
that there was a great demand for people to want to know more, because Betty and I were in telling.

849
01:17:32,440 --> 01:17:35,440
We hadn't told this reporter who wrote the story.

850
01:17:35,440 --> 01:17:38,440
If this demand became very great, there was tremendous pressure.

851
01:17:38,440 --> 01:17:47,440
Plus, as I point out, much of the kind of remarks that were stated untrue fantasies attributed to what we were supposed to have been doing

852
01:17:47,440 --> 01:17:51,440
when we had never said we had done any of those particular things.

853
01:17:51,440 --> 01:17:57,440
And we then, in releasing this material, contracts were drawn up.

854
01:17:57,440 --> 01:18:08,440
This is quite a standard procedure, because once we became a part of exposure this way, obviously, it could not be expected of us, Betty and I,

855
01:18:08,440 --> 01:18:15,440
to let our names go out this way without some kind of...

856
01:18:15,440 --> 01:18:19,440
The defense is being paid for the efforts.

857
01:18:19,440 --> 01:18:25,440
For instance, the night where I am employed, I work for the government as a postal worker,

858
01:18:25,440 --> 01:18:35,440
and quite obvious tomorrow I'll have to be out there delivering my appointed rounds after having been up to what I probably wanted.

859
01:18:35,440 --> 01:18:37,440
Let me point out this, too.

860
01:18:37,440 --> 01:18:41,440
I think the question is probably well put.

861
01:18:41,440 --> 01:18:50,440
But I think it also needs to be pointed out that if I had found myself experiencing this kind of thing in my own consciousness,

862
01:18:50,440 --> 01:18:59,440
and if I had been compelled to go to a psychiatrist and to spend some seven months in psychiatric care,

863
01:18:59,440 --> 01:19:04,440
is there a way I presume that Dr. Simon does not provide a free service to anyone?

864
01:19:04,440 --> 01:19:10,440
Betty and I paid for those services seven months where we both were regressed factors,

865
01:19:10,440 --> 01:19:14,440
which meant that both of us were paying the hourly rate.

866
01:19:14,440 --> 01:19:16,440
And may I add something?

867
01:19:16,440 --> 01:19:17,440
All right.

868
01:19:17,440 --> 01:19:24,440
I also would like to say that from 1961, or up until really up until the present time,

869
01:19:24,440 --> 01:19:35,440
Betty and I were trying to find out as much information and as much we could scientifically about this experience.

870
01:19:35,440 --> 01:19:45,440
We went to scientific conventions, we went to scientists, and we spent a great many hours doing this,

871
01:19:45,440 --> 01:19:52,440
and not only that, we spent hundreds and hundreds of our own money in our own investigation of this.

872
01:19:52,440 --> 01:19:58,440
Well, I was just going to add to that, Betty, that if I had experienced all of this as you have,

873
01:19:58,440 --> 01:20:10,440
I would have, and also had the fortune, the good fortune of having that selling author choose to document the experience in a book.

874
01:20:10,440 --> 01:20:14,440
I would have no compunction about signing my name to a contract either,

875
01:20:14,440 --> 01:20:21,440
and I would hesitate to choose anybody at random in this society who would, incidentally.

876
01:20:21,440 --> 01:20:26,440
I think that the question was well put, and I believe it to have been well answered.

877
01:20:26,440 --> 01:20:27,440
Sure.

878
01:20:27,440 --> 01:20:30,440
Well, I didn't understand any noise.

879
01:20:30,440 --> 01:20:31,440
Betty, did you?

880
01:20:31,440 --> 01:20:33,440
No, I didn't either.

881
01:20:33,440 --> 01:20:41,440
When we saw the object coming in closer, it appeared like a solid yellow light, like a star.

882
01:20:41,440 --> 01:20:46,440
And then as it came in closer, it gave a twinkling effect.

883
01:20:46,440 --> 01:20:51,440
When it was coming in closer, I had the impression that it was flowing down.

884
01:20:51,440 --> 01:20:57,440
Also, there was a very erratic light coming, and this was another thing that I noticed.

885
01:20:57,440 --> 01:20:59,440
There was no change in color.

886
01:20:59,440 --> 01:21:05,440
It was the twinkling effect, and then as it came in closer and we saw the windows,

887
01:21:05,440 --> 01:21:11,440
we had the impression, I don't know how true it is, but we had the impression that the ground was spinning,

888
01:21:11,440 --> 01:21:15,440
and it was actually the windows that we were seeing.

889
01:21:15,440 --> 01:21:21,440
Was the gradual change diminishing from orange into dull up and then blackness?

890
01:21:21,440 --> 01:21:28,440
It was a different kind of symbol than I'd ever seen before.

891
01:21:28,440 --> 01:21:33,440
There was no resemblance to writing or printing.

892
01:21:33,440 --> 01:21:35,440
I couldn't say what it was.

893
01:21:35,440 --> 01:21:44,440
The printing went up in order, lettering, or I didn't say writing, the symbol went up and down rather than across.

894
01:21:44,440 --> 01:21:48,440
Was the binding Betty in any way similar to our books?

895
01:21:48,440 --> 01:21:52,440
Well, I've only had it for a few moments in a...

896
01:21:52,440 --> 01:21:54,440
You didn't really have too much chance to look at it.

897
01:21:54,440 --> 01:21:56,440
But at a quick glance, did it look like a book?

898
01:21:56,440 --> 01:21:58,440
I would say it looked like a book.

899
01:21:58,440 --> 01:22:01,440
I never thought about that.

900
01:22:01,440 --> 01:22:08,440
But wait, I would assume that it probably would be about the same weight as one of our books

901
01:22:08,440 --> 01:22:11,440
that I probably might have noticed a difference.

902
01:22:12,440 --> 01:22:16,440
Did it look to you that either the book had been mechanically reproduced

903
01:22:16,440 --> 01:22:20,440
as one of our books might be, or could it have been hand-lettered?

904
01:22:20,440 --> 01:22:28,440
Did it appear more artistically done than might be done by a machine, for example?

905
01:22:28,440 --> 01:22:39,440
That's just a casual answer, but I would say it didn't look as though it would be something that we would do in handwriting.

906
01:22:39,440 --> 01:22:41,440
How would that be more like a published book?

907
01:22:41,440 --> 01:22:49,440
Maybe the whole line of questioning in this way, as far as publishing or hand-lettered, would be illogical.

908
01:22:49,440 --> 01:23:00,440
I would assume that another more advanced intelligence would at least have been able to discover the principle or the means of publishing books,

909
01:23:00,440 --> 01:23:05,440
and that if the book was indeed a book, then it was therefore done mechanically.

910
01:23:05,440 --> 01:23:12,440
Yes, I would like to add that Dr. Simon did not say he did not believe.

911
01:23:12,440 --> 01:23:14,440
I didn't read that anywhere either.

912
01:23:14,440 --> 01:23:19,440
What Dr. Simon has hypothesized is that there is no possibility.

913
01:23:19,440 --> 01:23:23,440
This is only a theory that he would say. It's a theory.

914
01:23:23,440 --> 01:23:29,440
There is the possibility that there has been a dream transference, that Betty had a dream,

915
01:23:29,440 --> 01:23:34,440
and then I absorbed a dream and it has become a part of my reality.

916
01:23:34,440 --> 01:23:41,440
In asking how this could be done, there are several theories governing this matter.

917
01:23:41,440 --> 01:23:46,440
Number one, it was the talk first that Betty talked in her sleep,

918
01:23:46,440 --> 01:23:50,440
but we would have to presume that she was talking complete sentences.

919
01:23:50,440 --> 01:23:59,440
I would have been asleep and then I would have overheard her talking, and this way I would have absorbed it.

920
01:23:59,440 --> 01:24:08,440
Well, this was obviously unsound to believe, because I was employed at night at this time in Boston,

921
01:24:08,440 --> 01:24:13,440
commuting daily or nightly from Portsmouth to Boston, where I worked at night,

922
01:24:13,440 --> 01:24:18,440
so Betty would have had her dreams with me not being there.

923
01:24:18,440 --> 01:24:23,440
It might also be added that if this were this kind of transference,

924
01:24:23,440 --> 01:24:28,440
which Dr. Simon incidentally notes is exceedingly rare,

925
01:24:28,440 --> 01:24:35,440
it would also have to be pointed out that in Betty's dreams there are points of difference

926
01:24:35,440 --> 01:24:44,440
between the dreams and between the hypnotic regression, and I think in as much as these points of difference exist.

927
01:24:44,440 --> 01:24:51,440
I think this discounts the theory that it could be a transference even more.

928
01:24:51,440 --> 01:24:56,440
I am willing to accept a dream transference. I can accept it,

929
01:24:56,440 --> 01:25:02,440
but then I have to ask a question in myself. What happened to the two lost hours?

930
01:25:02,440 --> 01:25:08,440
Plus, the doctor does believe that we saw some aerial phenomenon.

931
01:25:08,440 --> 01:25:10,440
Also the last box.

932
01:25:10,440 --> 01:25:14,440
And by the end of this year, on both Betty and my part,

933
01:25:14,440 --> 01:25:19,440
these are questions that would have to obviously follow through with the dream transference.

934
01:25:19,440 --> 01:25:24,440
I think that Dr. Simon's disclaimer was a great deal more subtle,

935
01:25:24,440 --> 01:25:29,440
and I think more evasive than this gentleman states.

936
01:25:29,440 --> 01:25:36,440
I don't recall precisely what Dr. Simon said in either of the most articles.

937
01:25:36,440 --> 01:25:40,440
I recall having read them, but they don't come back to my memory.

938
01:25:40,440 --> 01:25:45,440
And I would like to say too that there were others in the area who had seen the UFOs,

939
01:25:45,440 --> 01:25:50,440
so that part of it is not questioned, and of course the spots on the car were evident.

940
01:25:50,440 --> 01:25:52,440
Yes, by other people.

941
01:25:52,440 --> 01:25:57,440
First I'd like to add my part to that, and then that's Betty at her.

942
01:25:57,440 --> 01:26:01,440
I did not carry on a conversation with these creatures,

943
01:26:01,440 --> 01:26:07,440
and at best that I could describe, I was treated very indifferent.

944
01:26:07,440 --> 01:26:14,440
The best that I could say is much like if we found wild game in the wood,

945
01:26:14,440 --> 01:26:18,440
and we decided to capture it with the intentions of not farming it,

946
01:26:18,440 --> 01:26:21,440
but just to look at it and observe it, see what it's like,

947
01:26:21,440 --> 01:26:23,440
and then release it.

948
01:26:23,440 --> 01:26:31,440
There was complete indifference to me as an intellectual equal to them.

949
01:26:31,440 --> 01:26:38,440
And plus you have to also realize that if the regressive hypnosis is factual,

950
01:26:38,440 --> 01:26:42,440
if this is an experience that Betty and I regressively had lived,

951
01:26:42,440 --> 01:26:50,440
then I would have been in a subdued situation at the time that I would have been on board this past.

952
01:26:50,440 --> 01:26:53,440
Barney, I would like to ask you a quickie too before I leave,

953
01:26:53,440 --> 01:26:57,440
and that is, of course, many contactees, as we referred to them,

954
01:26:57,440 --> 01:27:00,440
they'll say, well, we've been chosen, but do you personally believe,

955
01:27:00,440 --> 01:27:05,440
and you and Betty believe, that you were chosen by these space creatures,

956
01:27:05,440 --> 01:27:11,440
or do you feel that if Alan or I had been there, that this would have happened to us instead?

957
01:27:11,440 --> 01:27:16,440
I think if you had been there and had done what we had done, it would have happened to you.

958
01:27:16,440 --> 01:27:22,440
Betty and I, after she had seen this light star moving through the heavens,

959
01:27:22,440 --> 01:27:26,440
that would change, draw her to my attention, and we continued to drive,

960
01:27:26,440 --> 01:27:29,440
I think that would have been the only thing we would have seen.

961
01:27:29,440 --> 01:27:32,440
I really believe that by stopping the car occasionally,

962
01:27:32,440 --> 01:27:35,440
opening the door, causing the dome light to go on,

963
01:27:35,440 --> 01:27:42,440
we drew attention to us, and it was that kind of a thing.

964
01:27:42,440 --> 01:27:44,440
We weren't chosen by any...

965
01:27:44,440 --> 01:27:46,440
I feel that way too, I'm glad you said that.

966
01:27:46,440 --> 01:27:47,440
Alright, thank you.

967
01:27:47,440 --> 01:27:48,440
Thank you, Earl, and good night.

968
01:27:48,440 --> 01:27:49,440
Thank you so much.

969
01:27:49,440 --> 01:27:50,440
Good night, Earl.

970
01:27:50,440 --> 01:27:51,440
Good night, Alan.

971
01:27:51,440 --> 01:27:53,440
Good night, Betty, and good night, Alan.

972
01:27:53,440 --> 01:27:54,440
Good night, everybody.

973
01:27:54,440 --> 01:27:57,440
We're going to go on now for just a few more minutes,

974
01:27:57,440 --> 01:28:00,440
but the Air Force called it Jupiter.

975
01:28:00,440 --> 01:28:02,440
Is that right, Betty?

976
01:28:02,440 --> 01:28:03,440
Yes, this was in Project E.

977
01:28:03,440 --> 01:28:04,440
Betty?

978
01:28:04,440 --> 01:28:09,440
Well, they gave several explanations, I believe.

979
01:28:09,440 --> 01:28:11,440
The Air Force had one time and another.

980
01:28:11,440 --> 01:28:13,440
Inversion was one of them, wasn't it?

981
01:28:13,440 --> 01:28:17,440
So it's a possibility of an air inversion of a planet Jupiter,

982
01:28:17,440 --> 01:28:23,440
and I believe that the last report was interspersion evidence.

983
01:28:23,440 --> 01:28:29,440
Alright, it's interesting to note now that the Air Force has finally signed off.

984
01:28:29,440 --> 01:28:33,440
I'm sure everyone is aware of this and is awarded a $300,000 grant

985
01:28:33,440 --> 01:28:38,440
to the University of Colorado, who here and after will handle these cases

986
01:28:38,440 --> 01:28:40,440
and provide the documentation,

987
01:28:40,440 --> 01:28:43,440
as is now the Air Force is definitely out of the fire.

988
01:28:43,440 --> 01:28:45,440
At least where you folks are concerned.

989
01:28:45,440 --> 01:28:49,440
You either of you, I think perhaps Betty may be better able to answer that.

990
01:28:49,440 --> 01:28:50,440
I think so.

991
01:28:50,440 --> 01:28:54,440
I only described the table that I was placing on as being hard.

992
01:28:54,440 --> 01:28:59,440
Actually, I could not say whether the walls were steel or plastic,

993
01:28:59,440 --> 01:29:06,440
or just what they were of, but I would say that they were some kind of metal or some kind,

994
01:29:06,440 --> 01:29:07,440
or it might have been a hard class.

995
01:29:07,440 --> 01:29:09,440
Were you aware of any color?

996
01:29:09,440 --> 01:29:10,440
No.

997
01:29:10,440 --> 01:29:12,440
Were they barren?

998
01:29:12,440 --> 01:29:13,440
It was barren.

999
01:29:13,440 --> 01:29:19,440
Yes, the only thing I noticed, Alan, is that the light system seemed to have

1000
01:29:19,440 --> 01:29:26,440
an indirect lighting system, where I did not notice any ball, but it was just light.

1001
01:29:26,440 --> 01:29:30,440
I have a couple of questions I want to ask both Barney and Betty,

1002
01:29:30,440 --> 01:29:32,440
and then we're going to close the program.

1003
01:29:32,440 --> 01:29:36,440
Betty and Barney, how do you both personally feel?

1004
01:29:36,440 --> 01:29:43,440
Do you accept the truth of what you believe as the truth?

1005
01:29:43,440 --> 01:29:48,440
Alan, based on the evidence of the regressive hypnosis,

1006
01:29:48,440 --> 01:29:54,440
I can only say that now the trip seems like to me a continuous trip,

1007
01:29:54,440 --> 01:29:57,440
where there is not the interruption.

1008
01:29:57,440 --> 01:30:02,440
It is as if I had taken a trip from here to Philadelphia

1009
01:30:02,440 --> 01:30:07,440
and am consciously aware of all the places I would pass.

1010
01:30:07,440 --> 01:30:09,440
Then on the stops I would make?

1011
01:30:09,440 --> 01:30:12,440
Then the information you now have as a result of the hypnotic regression

1012
01:30:12,440 --> 01:30:16,440
seems like another, almost a fantasy to you.

1013
01:30:16,440 --> 01:30:17,440
Pardon me?

1014
01:30:17,440 --> 01:30:22,440
The information you have as a result of, do I understand you to say now that the entire trip

1015
01:30:22,440 --> 01:30:25,440
seems now as a whole cloth?

1016
01:30:25,440 --> 01:30:26,440
Yes.

1017
01:30:26,440 --> 01:30:27,440
Everything that happened?

1018
01:30:27,440 --> 01:30:30,440
There is no longer the inner pressures, apparently.

1019
01:30:30,440 --> 01:30:35,440
My alter has, well, I can say healed because it is bothering me.

1020
01:30:35,440 --> 01:30:36,440
I see.

1021
01:30:36,440 --> 01:30:40,440
Apparently there must have been something that created this tension,

1022
01:30:40,440 --> 01:30:46,440
that has been dissipated as a result of the hypnotherapy and the therapy used by Dr. Barney.

1023
01:30:46,440 --> 01:30:47,440
Then you accept this?

1024
01:30:47,440 --> 01:30:49,440
I have to accept it.

1025
01:30:49,440 --> 01:30:50,440
Betty?

1026
01:30:50,440 --> 01:30:52,440
As much as I find it difficult to do.

1027
01:30:52,440 --> 01:30:54,440
Betty, what about you?

1028
01:30:54,440 --> 01:31:05,440
I also accept that when Dr. Simon first discussed the profitability of the dream

1029
01:31:05,440 --> 01:31:13,440
transparent, I liked that because basically, business is a very frightening, upsetting

1030
01:31:13,440 --> 01:31:14,440
experience.

1031
01:31:14,440 --> 01:31:20,440
I would say probably emotionally in the beginning would have about the same effect as being involved

1032
01:31:20,440 --> 01:31:22,440
in the serious automobile accident.

1033
01:31:22,440 --> 01:31:25,440
This is my feeling about it.

1034
01:31:25,440 --> 01:31:31,440
With this dream transparent theory, I could say to myself that I could forget it.

1035
01:31:31,440 --> 01:31:33,440
That it was nothing but a dream.

1036
01:31:33,440 --> 01:31:37,440
I kept trying to tell myself that.

1037
01:31:37,440 --> 01:31:42,440
I could only do this for a short period of time.

1038
01:31:42,440 --> 01:31:46,440
I had the feeling that I was just kidding myself.

1039
01:31:46,440 --> 01:31:51,440
It is part of my reality.

1040
01:31:51,440 --> 01:31:54,440
I really believe it actually happened.

1041
01:31:54,440 --> 01:31:59,440
The experience that you have heard tonight, ladies and gentlemen, from Betty and Barney Hill

1042
01:31:59,440 --> 01:32:07,440
is an experience that I, and also Dr. Simon, believe these people implicitly accept this

1043
01:32:07,440 --> 01:32:09,440
having happened to them.

1044
01:32:09,440 --> 01:32:13,440
It is interesting to know what Dr. Simon says in his introduction to his book.

1045
01:32:13,440 --> 01:32:18,440
He says, in cases like the Hills, hypnosis can be the key to a locked room, the amnesic

1046
01:32:18,440 --> 01:32:19,440
period.

1047
01:32:19,440 --> 01:32:24,440
The experience buried in amnesia may be recalled in a much shorter time than in a normal course

1048
01:32:24,440 --> 01:32:26,440
of the psychotherapeutic process.

1049
01:32:26,440 --> 01:32:31,440
Nevertheless, there is little produced under or by hypnosis that is not possible without.

1050
01:32:31,440 --> 01:32:37,440
The charisma at hypnosis is tended to foster the belief that hypnosis is the magical and

1051
01:32:37,440 --> 01:32:39,440
royal road to truth.

1052
01:32:39,440 --> 01:32:44,440
In one sense this is so, but it must be understood, as Dr. Simon, that hypnosis is a pathway to

1053
01:32:44,440 --> 01:32:47,440
the truth as it is felt and understood by the patient.

1054
01:32:47,440 --> 01:32:52,440
The truth is what he believes to be the truth, and this may or may not be consonant with

1055
01:32:52,440 --> 01:32:54,440
the ultimate non-personal truth.

1056
01:32:54,440 --> 01:33:01,440
Most frequently it is, and I think that's a very interesting note to carry with us as

1057
01:33:01,440 --> 01:33:06,440
we thank Betty and Barney Hill for this fascinating two hours tonight.

1058
01:33:06,440 --> 01:33:10,440
I am very, very grateful to you, and I hope that if I ever get up to New Hampshire that

1059
01:33:10,440 --> 01:33:12,440
I'll have the opportunity to meet with you.

1060
01:33:12,440 --> 01:33:15,440
Well, and I certainly would enjoy having you visit with us.

1061
01:33:15,440 --> 01:33:19,440
We have a beautiful area here, and we could take a trip up to this section.

1062
01:33:19,440 --> 01:33:25,440
Betty and I have located the spot, but we never knew of this location until after we had been

1063
01:33:25,440 --> 01:33:31,440
regressed back in that period of time, and now we have found what we believe strongly is

1064
01:33:31,440 --> 01:33:33,440
the abduction point.

1065
01:33:33,440 --> 01:33:38,440
And we both came to this conclusion, you might say, as we were going back over this area,

1066
01:33:38,440 --> 01:33:42,440
and it seems as if we have been there before, you might say.

1067
01:33:42,440 --> 01:33:43,440
Yes.

1068
01:33:43,440 --> 01:33:45,440
Well, I would look forward to that, Betty and Barney.

1069
01:33:45,440 --> 01:33:47,440
Both of you, thank you ever so much.

1070
01:33:47,440 --> 01:33:51,440
I know you have an early day study for you tomorrow over at the post office, and I do

1071
01:33:51,440 --> 01:33:54,440
want to thank you again, and all best wishes to both of you.

1072
01:33:54,440 --> 01:33:55,440
Thank you.

1073
01:33:55,440 --> 01:33:56,440
Thank you, Betty.

1074
01:33:56,440 --> 01:33:57,440
Thank you, Barney, and good night.